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Topic : Town Council Minutes

Corky Yorky
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22/06/2018 : 20:18:04      reply with quote


I notice that the Town Council are not submitting their minutes. Minutes from May and June are not available?
Anyone know why they are not posting minutes?
If the TC do not post minutes how can anyone respond to what has been discussed, the following month?
They should be posted and freely available within a week or so of any meeting, i would have thought.

The public are not been kept informed and the TC and clearly defaulting on their legal commitments to the public.
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Peter
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22/06/2018 : 22:15:51      reply with quote


The minutes from the previous meeting are NEVER published until they have been ratified by STC at the current meeting. In this case the 10th of May meeting would have been ratified at the 7th June meeting, this makes the minutes of the 10th of May meeting slightly overdue.

A matter which 'm sure will be sorted out soon.

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Corky Yorky
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23/06/2018 : 09:31:37      reply with quote


quote
posted by Peter
The minutes from the previous meeting are NEVER published until they have been ratified by STC at the current meeting. In this case the 10th of May meeting would have been ratified at the 7th June meeting, this makes the minutes of the 10th of May meeting slightly overdue.

A matter which 'm sure will be sorted out soon.


I don’t call 15 days “slightly over due” ?

Considering that the minutes are NOT a full record anyhow..only a very brief description..why do they need to be ratified a month later!
Given their briefness they could be ratified at the end of the meeting.
This ratification process delays the process for people to be able to respond to matters quickly.
It’s silly and outdated..and if the clerk cannot put in the minutes accordingly then they shouldn’t be doing their job.
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midway
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Posts : 1621

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23/06/2018 : 10:05:23      reply with quote


Corky Yorky it's a pity you didn't go along to the annual general meeting. would have given you the opportunity to meet our new councillors. it was more informal than usual with plenty of questions from residents, and good knowledgable responses from the council members. Hope to see you at the next Council meeting, i always enjoy your comments and observations.
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Corky Yorky
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23/06/2018 : 12:20:11      reply with quote


quote
posted by midway
Corky Yorky it's a pity you didn't go along to the annual general meeting. would have given you the opportunity to meet our new councillors. it was more informal than usual with plenty of questions from residents, and good knowledgable responses from the council members. Hope to see you at the next Council meeting, i always enjoy your comments and observations.
Good to hear it’s a bit more informal..maybe the TC should re-invent/re-fresh themselves and have an opening ceremony for it!

I only attend council minutes when i can or when i feel i can positively contribute..but alas listeners and doers on the TC are few and far between these days!

In addition i feel it pretty pointless going, much of the time, because comments by the public are not noted in the minutes. Thus putting your opinions on a public forum such as this allows comments to be more publically aired. Thus more of the public, if similarly concerned, can also address the TC as well.
This is why the TC fails the community.
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porta
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Posts : 57

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23/06/2018 : 13:28:37      reply with quote


If you don’t go, you shouldn’t comment

Would you do the same for an election, not vote then moan about the outcome?

Here endeth the lesson in obviousness
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Peter
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23/06/2018 : 14:16:45      reply with quote


quote
Considering that the minutes are NOT a full record anyhow..only a very brief description..why do they need to be ratified a month later!
Given their briefness they could be ratified at the end of the meeting.
This ratification process delays the process for people to be able to respond to matters quickly.
It’s silly and outdated..and if the clerk cannot put in the minutes accordingly then they shouldn’t be doing their job.
If you had attended the Annual Town Meeting you would have noted the minutes were ratified for the meeting a year ago

The STC minutes are now up to date:
www.silsden.net/town_council/index.htm

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tetleydrinker
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23/06/2018 : 15:12:00      reply with quote


this post has been edited 1 time(s)

I love the if you don't go don't complain aspect of this thread. Silsden has a population of over 9,000 people I am told, the majority of whom pay Council Tax and therefore pay into the precept, so if we all decided to go to the meetings where would it be held ?

It is a valid point asking about the minutes of the meetings, but of course doing it on this forum makes you "anti council", I have never quite understood the connection of this website and the town council, I know that a payment seems to be made to Faxsol around November every year by STC to cover hosting etc, but I am positive that cheaper hosting options are now available and maybe STC should look at developing an independant website that is 100% within there control rather than running off the back a website and forum that only focuses on the negatives views of around a dozen or so regular posters.

I will email the Town clerk to clarify the connection of Silsden.net and the Town council and request that the Town Council provide an Unbiased website ASAP.

Feel free to troll in 3.....2.....1.....
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Corky Yorky
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Posts : 187

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23/06/2018 : 20:01:22      reply with quote


this post has been edited 1 time(s)

quote
posted by Peter
[
If you had attended the Annual Town Meeting you would have noted the minutes were ratified for the meeting a year ago


Peter..what the heck do you mean by your comment?
I know the council have to have a schedule of meetings for the coming year..but minutes?

If your also saying because i didn’t attend a council meeting then i should be a lesser informed person?..err No i think your talking tosh! That’s what the council minutes and agendas are supposed to be for? To keep a record and inform those who wish to know whats been happening.

I can’t see our TC getting Quality Council scheme 2013 approval anytime soon!
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Peter
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23/06/2018 : 21:06:41      reply with quote


It was an example of how the publishing of the minutes to the public works.

The minutes of a meeting are not published until the the the committee (STC) have ratified the meeting, this can only take place at the next meeting. A general meeting cannot be ratified at a planning meeting, same as, a planning meeting cannot be ratified at a general meeting.

So it will take a year to see the minutes of the ANNUAL town meeting.

The minutes have to be signed off as a true and accurate record of the meeting. Which can only happen at the next meeting which will have the same councillors present.

There were several "no meeting" of the planning committee this year, have a look to see when the minutes of the planning meeting before a cancelled meeting were published.

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gazzer
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Posts : 3122

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23/06/2018 : 22:54:16      reply with quote


As an example of council minutes, Bradford Council passed the minutes for a council meeting held on March 20th 2018, on May 15th 2018!!!!!
https://bradford.moderngov.co.uk/documents/g6641/Printed%20minutes%2015th-May-2018%2010.30%20Council.pdf?T=1
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porta
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Posts : 57

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23/06/2018 : 23:51:48      reply with quote


quote
posted by tetleydrinker
I love the if you don't go don't complain aspect of this thread. Silsden has a population of over 14,000 people I believe, the majority of whom pay Council Tax and therefore pay into the precept, so if we all decided to go to the meetings where would it be held ?

It is a valid point asking about the minutes of the meetings, but of course doing it on this forum makes you "anti council", I have never quite understood the connection of this website and the town council, I know that a payment seems to be made to Faxsol around November every year by STC to cover hosting etc, but I am positive that cheaper hosting options are now available and maybe STC should look at developing an independant website that is 100% within there control rather than running off the back a website and forum that only focuses on the negatives views of around a dozen or so regular posters.

I will email the Town clerk to clarify the connection of Silsden.net and the Town council and request that the Town Council provide an Unbiased website ASAP.

Feel free to troll in 3.....2.....1.....
No trolling, and I don’t expect a 14000 capacity venue...
We elect councillors to represent us, if we don’t like it, we should vote to deselect them, but if you are that passionate that you need to question every decision, omission, minute, then you really should either: attend; delegate or make a submission 😉
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victor
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Posts : 711

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24/06/2018 : 09:15:25      reply with quote


People who make comments on this site would have more credibility if they had there facts right. The population of Silsden is around 9000, it might go up to 12000 when all the new houses are built.
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Peter
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24/06/2018 : 09:31:51      reply with quote


As we all know from the gas problems there are about 3,500 households (probably just a few more).
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jonno
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Posts : 777

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24/06/2018 : 17:18:04      reply with quote


I find the council method of ratifying the minutes very out of date, archaic even.

What's wrong with circulating the minutes to all the attendees (by that most modern invention, email) shortly after the meeting for them to verify their accuracy and then if there are no corrections or additions or comments by a certain deadline then publish them? It works for business managing huge assets, I'm sure the very abbreviated council minutes could follow the same system.

And how, unless they take their own notes, can they possibly recall what was said in a meeting that happened a month, or in your example Peter, over a year ago and know if anything of importance was missed?

Words such as hidebound, rigid and unimaginative come to mind.
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Peter
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Posts : 4735

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24/06/2018 : 19:17:46      reply with quote


quote
I find the council method of ratifying the minutes very out of date, archaic even.
I have to agree with you. For minutes of a meeting to be of any use then the sooner they are published the better. Some of the planning meeting minutes are published far to late to be of any use to the public. I did try to get this changed some time ago but without any success.

Perhaps it needs a few emails to go the Town Clerk so the matter can be brought up as an item on the agenda.

The example I gave for the Annual Town Meeting is a bit odd, the meeting is called by the mayor and the minutes are written in a book (not published). The meeting is a bit of "the state of the union" and nothing to do with STC as such. The last years' minutes are read out at the start of the meeting as a record of the previous years' meeting.




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tetleydrinker
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Posts : 309

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24/06/2018 : 20:56:25      reply with quote


quote
posted by victor
People who make comments on this site would have more credibility if they had there facts right. The population of Silsden is around 9000, it might go up to 12000 when all the new houses are built.
Thanks Victor, When i made my post I didn't have access to the full facts, so based on your guestimate of 9,000 residents or 3,500 households, (I apologise for my inaccuracy), please suggest a venue in Silsden for a town meeting, or respond to my original post "


"It is a valid point asking about the minutes of the meetings, but of course doing it on this forum makes you "anti council", I have never quite understood the connection of this website and the town council, I know that a payment seems to be made to Faxsol around November every year by STC to cover hosting etc, but I am positive that cheaper hosting options are now available and maybe STC should look at developing an independant website that is 100% within there control rather than running off the back a website and forum that only focuses on the negatives views of around a dozen or so regular posters."

Thank You
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victor
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Posts : 711

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25/06/2018 : 10:10:30      reply with quote


tetleydrinker I think you will find that over the years there is no one who has criticised Silsden town council as much as me, not even corkeyyorkey. But as most things councils change and the present council has a lot of new members so I am giving them a chance to show us they are an improvement on the previous poor ones.
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midway
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Posts : 1621

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25/06/2018 : 12:25:06      reply with quote


Please bear in mind, that expounding your views on this forum, rather than the council chamber, will not change a thing – and if you can’t be bothered, does that mean it’s fair game to criticize those who do make the effort. or do you prefer to let others do the work, and then criticize from the sidelines?
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jonno
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Posts : 777

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26/06/2018 : 09:19:14      reply with quote


Midway (and others who put forward this specious argument) whether I or anyone else attends council meetings has no correlation at all with whether we have a right to comment (whether praise or criticism) on what we see happening, or failing to happen, in the council. If you disagree I'd love to tear apart your attempts to prove there is a link. Just because you think it doesn't make it so.

And as for the reasoning that there's no point commenting on this forum as it will get nothing done, yes, people know that but they still want to communicate their feelings and ideas to other people. Do you never hear people set the world to rights down the pub in the full knowledge that their words will have zero impact on reality? Should we only speak if our words will definitely change the world?

Furthermore if the council don't take note of what's being said on local forums like this they would be missing a trick and I would be surprised if there isn't at least someone with a link to a council member (ahem, Peter?) keeping them apprised of what's being talked about most.

If people really want to get something done then attending a council meeting might be a place to start the ball rolling but people achieve things in many other ways, direct action, protests, media campaigns, social media, legal action, petitions, etc etc. Council meetings are not he only game in town.

People who are so desperately wedded to the status quo should be careful how they defend it because if their silly arguments wind up enough people those people just might attend meetings more often and hold our local council more closely to account and the status quo might end up changing a lot more.

Finally I can only advise you if people criticising the council upsets you so much either grow a thicker skin or stop reading posts that might offend you.

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gazzer
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Posts : 3122

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26/06/2018 : 11:47:26      reply with quote


The parish council has a legal duty to
keep records of its meetings which
can then be used as evidence in a
court of law. Minutes become legal
when they are approved by the council
and they are signed by the chairman
as an accurate record. This normally
occurs at the next meeting. Loose
leaf minutes should be numbered
consecutively and initialled by the
chairman on every page. Minutes
need a clear numbering system for
easy reference. Most councils use a
system related to the council year.
Minutes should be kept secure for
ever, retained by the council or sent
to the county archive.
The record of decisions must be
absolutely clear. You are required to record a councillor’s vote only
if specifically requested to do so.
It is good practice to use the
following phrase and to write it
in bold. It was resolved ...
Minutes should be as concise as
possible but there is little agreement
on the appropriate style for minutes.
As a minimum the minutes must
record the resolution or the decision
but can also include a short summary
of important points where this adds
value. A detailed account of who
said what is neither necessary nor
advisable.
It is good practice for the clerk
to make the minutes available for
public inspection as soon as possible
after the meeting. Prior to signing
they can be labelled ‘draft minutes’.
The availability of the minutes
should be explained in the council’s
publication scheme according to the
Freedom of Information Act 2000.
This Act ensures that documentation
for which the council
solid wood flooring

gazzer
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Posts : 3122

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26/06/2018 : 11:51:12      reply with quote


quote
posted by Corky Yorky

They should be posted and freely available within a week or so of any meeting, i would have thought.


"Minutes become legal
when they are approved by the council
and they are signed by the chairman
as an accurate record. This normally
occurs at the next meeting"
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Corky Yorky
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Posts : 187

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26/06/2018 : 14:27:21      reply with quote


this post has been edited 1 time(s)

Thats exactly my point gazzer!

What i dont understand is how the minutes can be ratified a month or two months down the line..when probably no one but the clerk can remember what was said or appoved in the previous meeting!
How can they appove something from such a long time ago?

Surely it would be best to ratify the minutes as close as possible to the meeting taken place; such as at the end of the meeting when it is fresh in everybodies heads!

That is why i said "They should be posted and freely available within a week or so of any meeting, i would have thought”!!!

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gazzer
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26/06/2018 : 17:26:08      reply with quote


quote
posted by Corky Yorky
Thats exactly my point gazzer!

What i dont understand is how the minutes can be ratified a month or two months down the line..when probably no one but the clerk can remember what was said or appoved in the previous meeting!
How can they appove something from such a long time ago?

Surely it would be best to ratify the minutes as close as possible to the meeting taken place; such as at the end of the meeting when it is fresh in everybodies heads!

That is why i said "They should be posted and freely available within a week or so of any meeting, i would have thought”!!!


I think it is usual and legal at the next meeting and it has never been a problem for hundres of councils so if it aint broke no need to fix it
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Corky Yorky
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26/06/2018 : 19:20:34      reply with quote


yes..Gazzer!..but that was for a world when we had paper as the main form of communication!

I think the minutes can be done anytime between the end of the meeting and the next..but two months is just silly and wrong.

People want value for money and councillors are accountable for their actions.

In 2012 the Government introduced 'general power of competence’. This enables local councils to respond more effectively to their communities’ needs, encouraging innovation and assisting in shared service delivery.

There is nothing wrong with our community wanting a better response from our TC.
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gazzer
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26/06/2018 : 22:23:15      reply with quote


quote
posted by Corky Yorky


In 2012 the Government introduced 'general power of competence’. This enables local councils to respond more effectively to their communities’ needs, encouraging innovation and assisting in shared service delivery.
.
What an earth are you on about and what does it have to do with Silsden Town Council minutes?

The GPC is for principle councils(District,County,Unitary etc) although a Town Council could take over street cleaning for instance cant find where it says minutes should be signed off straight after a meeting
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porta
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Posts : 57

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26/06/2018 : 23:06:57      reply with quote


quote
posted by gazzer
quote
posted by Corky Yorky


In 2012 the Government introduced 'general power of competence’. This enables local councils to respond more effectively to their communities’ needs, encouraging innovation and assisting in shared service delivery.
.
What an earth are you on about and what does it have to do with Silsden Town Council minutes?

The GPC is for principle councils(District,County,Unitary etc) although a Town Council could take over street cleaning for instance cant find where it says minutes should be signed off straight after a meeting
Ahh but you haven’t gone through the t&c’s with a fine tooth comb....I’m guessing you have a life Gazzer?

As for minutes, often circulated by email (or paper) and amends many times afore publication...it was also school holidays) so maybe just late
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Corky Yorky
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Posts : 187

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27/06/2018 : 09:19:44      reply with quote


this post has been edited 3 time(s)

quote
posted by gazzer
quote
posted by Corky Yorky


In 2012 the Government introduced 'general power of competence’. This enables local councils to respond more effectively to their communities’ needs, encouraging innovation and assisting in shared service delivery.
.
What an earth are you on about and what does it have to do with Silsden Town Council minutes?

The GPC is for principle councils(District,County,Unitary etc) although a Town Council could take over street cleaning for instance cant find where it says minutes should be signed off straight after a meeting
No! but most folk on here constantly witter on about how useless BMDC are and would like to go independent!

..I havent said it says anywhere that ” minutes should be signed off straight after a meeting”..so what on earth are you on about?
The fact is sonner the better..two months or even 15days late should not acceptable to get the minutes out.

Minutes are a record of the meeting with a list of actions etc.. so why does it need to take so long to get this ratified?
Surely its best to do it as soon as possible..when all those that were at the meeting can ratify that it was a true record.
It might be that at the next meeting none of the councillors from the previous meeting are at the current meeting so how can the minutes be ratified as being true in that instance? Barmy.
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victor
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27/06/2018 : 16:15:59      reply with quote


Blooming-heck corkey you seem to have got worse since you had your hair cut.
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midway
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Posts : 1621

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27/06/2018 : 21:10:39      reply with quote


Thought you could find this informative.
TRANSPARENCY CODE FOR SMALLER AUTHORITIES.
www.bit.ly/2KwXyAB
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porta
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Posts : 57

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28/06/2018 : 13:52:56      reply with quote


“one month after the meeting has taken place”

So clearly late, someone should bring it up at the next meeting, but don’t forget to put it on the agenda afore it gets circulated
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