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Topic : Traffic Survey for the NEW SCHOOL

Peter
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20/09/2017 : 13:59:53      reply with quote


From the KN 14th Sept 2017

quote
Cllr Naylor said the positioning of the access roads would be influenced by the results of a traffic survey recently carried out by council highways engineers.

He said the survey was postponed until after traffic returned to normal in Keighley Road, where there had been traffic lights for many months while wall and bridge repairs were carried out.
Besides a traffic survey of the current traffic going through Silsden wouldn't it be a good idea to ask the parents of children attending Aireview and Hothfield Street the questions:

1. Where do you live?
2. If the new school was up and running today how would you get your children to school?

Surely given the location of the new school and the age of its pupils many more parents will be getting the car out to make the school run. The traffic survey cannot be taken in isolation.
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darter
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20/09/2017 : 15:00:31      reply with quote


No Peter, the answer to the traffic problems that the school run will cause can be worked out by how many red and yellow cars and how many cyclists wearing white helmets go through Silsden.
Once they have the answer to those questions, Bradford can stick in another two sets of traffic lights; one by Clog Bridge and the other at Dale View. Simple.
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Mickyfinn
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20/09/2017 : 19:19:02      reply with quote


Darter, your obviously flippant remark concerning access to our new School site I find quite disturbing. It would appear to me that you don't think that this serious issue, which ought to be worthy of a reasoned sensible response, is of interest to you. Access to the new school site is a major issue which could have a detrimental effect to nearby residents who are likely to be directly effected.
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Corky Yorky
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20/09/2017 : 20:54:05      reply with quote


Interestingly..Parents of children at the former Aire View nursery, at the school, ...dont know about the actual school, were asked this Monday how they got to school?

A further point...Iím unsure if a nursery is to be part of the new school but if it is I would say that most parents would be taking their nursery children to the proposed new school site by car..as it is too far to walk to it with their little tots in hand.

The present location of the existing school is very centralised for Silsden and most people can actually walk to the school (if they had the time!), or at least do try.

I think there are approximately 25 tots in each class and there are two sessions (morn and aft). That is potentially 50 cars extra on the roads each day up and down twice to drop off and pick up their child.

Okay you could take some off for those that live a little closer to the proposed site, but with Silsden expanding vastly below the canal, cars will greatly be used.

Incidentally..I wonder if the new traffic survey will include the potential car usage figure for the new houses off Belton Road 470ish (based on two cars per household!)....as this has been given planning permission before this new school?

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darter
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20/09/2017 : 21:34:25      reply with quote


this post has been edited 1 time(s)

It's not a flippant remark Mickyfinn, just stating the level of thought Bradford are going to put into it. They don't care what the traffic is through our town. As long as they tick the boxes, they'll go for the cheapest option despite any protestations anyone makes to them.
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davidaloud
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20/09/2017 : 23:22:16      reply with quote


The position of the school and access to and from it were the biggest areas of concern for Silsden residents at the last public meeting. I would hope that the local authority, who will have commissioned the survey, will makes it's detail and findings available at the earliest opportunity.

If they are seen to be sitting on this information then people will draw their own conclusions.

Do our local councillors know the timeframe around the survey, and have they made their opinions public on the proposed detail and location for the new school.
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midway
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21/09/2017 : 12:09:15      reply with quote


There isn't going to be any consultation with anybody about anything regarding the plans or vehicle access, other than with the governors, who have had more details for months.

www.keighleynews.co.uk/news/15528546.Purple_reign_for_co_heads_of_Silsden__39_s_newly_merged_school/?ref=fbshr#comments-anchor
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victor
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21/09/2017 : 13:52:36      reply with quote


If anyone on the council is interested could one of them come up to view Hawber cote lane and look at the middle of the road which appears to be sinking. I understand that there is a land drain running down the middle of the road and with all the 8 wheeled wagons bringing sand to the new school site the land drain could be collapsing. They could also look at the mud on the roads if they have the time.
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mayflower
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21/09/2017 : 14:00:17      reply with quote


Adrian Naylor told me the results of the traffic survey should have been collated by the end of October. Bradford council planning are hopeless, just ask for the postcode or reference number, which cannot be given until plans are in!!! Still in the dark....when will residents who will be affected be informed??? Does Councillor O'Dwyer know anymore on this matter?
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midway
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21/09/2017 : 17:15:55      reply with quote


this post has been edited 1 time(s)

Well there is a definite dip in the surface, keep your eye on it Victor.

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Peter
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21/09/2017 : 17:42:16      reply with quote


The traffic survey (report) for the new school will not be released before the planning application is put in for the school as it will form part of the planning application.

It does not look like there has been any consultation with parents on how they will get to the new school so it is vital that parents / governors / Silsden School Heads take the initiative to carry out their own survey with questions similar to those suggest above. As stakeholders consultants in the project the survey results will carry more weight than individual objectors. It will add a dimension on the likely increase in traffic caused by the new school not addressed by a simple traffic survey.

Given the location of the new school, it is very likely parents taking their children to school will use their cars. This will increase the traffic congestion at peak commuting times.


The following is information published on the Bradford's website (with some changes to show the walking catchment area of the new school. Please remember the new school is at the top of a reasonably long climb and parents and young children are unlikely to want to walk twice a day.

The map shown below is on the Bradford website under the heading of:

Sustainable travel to school maps The red circle, centred on Hothfield Street, is the the current area considered sustainable for children travelling to school upto the age of 11. The green half-circle is a circle of the same radius which shows the sustainable travel area when the school moves to the Drabble House site.



Ref: https://www.bradford.gov.uk/education-and-skills/travel-assistance/sustainable-travel-to-school-maps/?Folder=Primary%20Schools\F+to+J

https://www.bradford.gov.uk/Documents/SustainableSchoolTravel/Primary%20Schools/F%20to%20J//Hothfield%20Junior%20School.pdf


This is Bradford's explanation of what "Sustainable Travel to School" means

https://www.bradford.gov.uk/education-and-skills/travel-assistance/sustainable-travel-to-school/

The red circle on the sustainable travel to school map has a radius of 0.5 miles. This is the distance beyond which children under the age of 10 are less likely to walk to school. This is shown in the chart below:



The chart was taken from Bradford's website from this document:

https://www.bradford.gov.uk/media/2397/sustainable-school-travel-strategy.pdf

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hat
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21/09/2017 : 19:51:43      reply with quote


i think there would be a huge benefit in sharing this on facebook as well as on here. This site often has really great information but the potential audience available via existing facebook silsden groups and pages would generate far more interest and feedback to the council on key issues like this. Are any of the contributors to this topic also active on facebook and willing to share? If not i could copy the relevant info over. I honestly think there are huge numbers of residents who know nothing about these plans, and have the right to a say
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Peter
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22/09/2017 : 09:15:06      reply with quote


The only reference you need to put on a Facebook site is

www.silsden.net/forum/philboard_read.asp?id=9248

They will then be able to join in this thread happy :)
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grandad
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22/09/2017 : 15:09:21      reply with quote


The map shows a Zebra Crossing on Kirkgate by the old Post Office, there isn't and never has been a crossing there.
If Bradford can't even get something as simple as that right what hope is there they will get anything right?
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midway
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22/09/2017 : 16:44:55      reply with quote


So we are no nearer.
www.silsden.net/forum/philboard_read.asp?id=8932
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gazzer
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22/09/2017 : 23:32:32      reply with quote


Any survey will give answers those paying for it want
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Happywalker
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23/09/2017 : 10:53:22      reply with quote


I, like many others, have written to Bradford Council objecting to the location of the new school. This has been primarily on the grounds of the traffic chaos and associated dangers that it will bring.
I am especially concerned regarding vehicles turning out of Dale View and Banklands onto Bolton Road, and vehicles turning into Howden Road from Daisy Hill and Jacques Grove.
These junctions have blind spots and require the driver to pull slightly into the road to gain a sight line, and we all know the speeds that vehicles travel down Bolton Road at.
There is the obvious pinch point of Clog Bridge too.
It is clear that Bradford Councils consultation process consists of accepting objections but doing what they are going to do anyway.
A traffic survey is pointless ...... the school is going where they say its going.
I say that the survey is pointless because, this being the case, unless anybody can put forward other suggestions, the routes can only be via Bolton Road and Howden Road & Clog Bridge.

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victor
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23/09/2017 : 11:09:18      reply with quote


this post has been edited 1 time(s)

Happywalker even if the road access was from Tannery corner there would be pedestrian access from Hawber cote lane and Airevill mount. The problems would still be Parents dropping children off and collecting them at these points, if the school is to be on this site then it will have to be in one way and out the other way. There would have to be residents parking only on the access and egress roads. At first I thought a school on this site would be better than housing, but the more you look into it, the more you can see it was a stupid idea to put a school so far out of town. Mallinson and others have a lot to answer for.
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Happywalker
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23/09/2017 : 11:18:25      reply with quote


Which is why the school should not be being built on the proposed site.
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Peter
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23/09/2017 : 11:18:35      reply with quote


quote
I say that the survey is pointless because, this being the case, unless anybody can put forward other suggestions, the routes can only be via Bolton Road and Howden Road & Clog Bridge.
The traffic survey has been done (commissioned by Bradford), but I started this topic to suggest the parents / governors / head teachers of Silsden School should conduct their own survey on how parents will get their children to the new school when it has been built.

BUT this survey will have to be organised by the school, Bradford will not do it.

Yet another survey? It won't make any difference to where the school access will be, I think that has already been decided, but it will provide leverage for Bradford to come up with a plan to enable small children to get to a school which is outside of sustainable walking distance for the majority of the young childen of Silsden. The alternative is traffic chaos.

A school "get to school survey" should highlight the problem quite nicely.
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Happywalker
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23/09/2017 : 11:33:06      reply with quote


So, its a done deal re where the school is going and where the access routes will be.
No point in any further consultation as regards that then.
Do we really need a survey as to how children living outside of a sustainable walking distance will get to school? By parents car of course.
Even if there was a bus service, do you think parents would want their toddlers going on it by themselves, and sitting on a bus travelling around the various pick-up points when using their car will be the quicker option.
I think we just have to accept the way that it will be.
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victor
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23/09/2017 : 11:43:27      reply with quote


Peter do you think that if enough people write or go to the next council meeting asking for a town meeting then Silsden town council would have to take note and do something about peoples concerns.
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Peter
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23/09/2017 : 13:22:01      reply with quote


Who said the new school would only cater for Silsden school children. Expect children to be bused in from other areas. It worth doing something or we will get whatever Bradford decides. It may be we get whatever Bradford decides but we shouldn't be laying down and accepting it.

You should send your concerns to:

TOWN CLERK
Mrs Lesley Corcoran
1 Oak Tree Court, Silsden, Keighley, BD20 9QS
Telephone: (01535) 670005 answerphone only
Email: silsdentownclerk2@blueyonder.co.uk

Ask for your concerns to be made an agenda item for the next STC meeting which will be on Thursday 5th October. Any agenda items must be submitted at least 5 days before the meeting. And / or you can attend the meeting and ask for a public adjournment, you will get 5 minutes to state your case. However, your adjournment will not be minuted and no action can be taken unless it becomes a agenda item which would be a month later.

I seem to remember people do nothing until the bulldozers are at the door, well ..... they are at the door.



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victor
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23/09/2017 : 13:35:41      reply with quote


Thank you Peter
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HurricaneHector
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24/09/2017 : 10:05:41      reply with quote


I believe you will find that whatever; anybody in Silsden says or does Bradford will do just as they like.
The first suggested place for this school was on our park, they soon changed that when they were told is does not belong to Bradford.
If a proper bypass to the East of Silsden was built, then the school could have vehicle access off it with no vehicle access from anywhere else.
But that is not likely to happen.
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hat
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24/09/2017 : 10:27:31      reply with quote


quote
posted by HurricaneHector
I believe you will find that whatever; anybody in Silsden says or does Bradford will do just as they like.
The first suggested place for this school was on our park, they soon changed that when they were told is does not belong to Bradford.
If a proper bypass to the East of Silsden was built, then the school could have vehicle access off it with no vehicle access from anywhere else.
But that is not likely to happen.
The counter argument to that is that apparently one of the reasons the weavestyle site is not suitable for a school is that it is too close to the trunk road from a pollution perspective. So its a case of bypass or school for this location, not both
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victor
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24/09/2017 : 12:15:43      reply with quote


As peter says the bulldozers are at the door but when we first had news about the site we were told nothing by members of STC who new about it. All those councillors who new about the site should hold there heads in shame, the excuse was they could not say anything because someone else could buy the land. If they had been open and honest about it then it would have been possible to stop it, now the excuse is well we now own the land. I think the attitude of some of the council is wrong, to tell people to stop moaning and accuse them of being nimbys is not what people in office should be saying.
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midway
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24/09/2017 : 17:28:09      reply with quote


Point of order "Victor" and let's get our facts straight. it's no secret that councillor Atkinson made the initial approach to the family regarding buying the extra piece of land, and that was it, gust the opening contact, neither he or any other councillors had anything to do with the negotiations.
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victor
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24/09/2017 : 17:55:44      reply with quote


midway if you where against it would you have any part in it. When we where trying to find out more information about the land who told us to stop moaning ?. Mallinson was part of it and yet after it was purchaced he told me he was against it, so who was keen on it.
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midway
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24/09/2017 : 18:17:38      reply with quote


quote
posted by victor
midway if you where against it would you have any part in it.
Yes i would if it meant getting a good deal for the community, and in this case a new school. anyway back on topic.
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grandad
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24/09/2017 : 20:25:58      reply with quote


Does Victor live in one of the bungalows near this site?
Therefore a full blown nimby.
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victor
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24/09/2017 : 21:51:24      reply with quote


As I have said before this man makes decisions on Silsden Town Council, sometimes I do despair.
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victor
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25/09/2017 : 11:23:16      reply with quote


So they have finally figured it out the fields are so muddy that to get on site they are putting down navy mats, and we haven't even had a lot of rain. Just wait until it rains a lot and water is running down Hawber cote lane as it does every winter, and they want to build a school on this land.
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Peter
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25/09/2017 : 15:30:51      reply with quote


Dec 26 2015 - exceptional weather perhaps, but it gets VERY soggy every winter. This is the top end of Middleway and a potential entrance to the school ground.



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victor
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25/09/2017 : 16:05:09      reply with quote


Peter it was the same running down Hawber cote lane. There is a very strong rum that there are plans out showing the access points, I myself have not seen them.
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HurricaneHector
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25/09/2017 : 20:12:23      reply with quote


No one person makes decisions on the Town Council, it is a democratic institution.
I am sure the Town Council will decide what is the best course of action on this subject when they have seen the plans and have all the facts in front of them, the decision will then be passed to Bradford who has usual will do what they like and totally disregard the views of the people of Silsden.
There are two vacancies on the Town Council, any body who wants to, can put their names up to join, this gallant band of unpaid workers who give a lot of their time to try and get the best they can for Silsden.
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